北京時(shí)間5月30日早上8點(diǎn)25分，中國CGTN女主播劉欣，應(yīng)約與美國FOX商業(yè)頻道女主播翠西·里根，就中美貿(mào)易等相關(guān)話題進(jìn)行了一場公開對(duì)話。雙方就公平貿(mào)易、知識(shí)產(chǎn)權(quán)、華為、關(guān)稅、中國發(fā)展中國家地位以及美國所謂“國家資本主義”進(jìn)行了交流。

以下為看看新聞?wù)淼谋敬螌?duì)話精彩內(nèi)容中英文對(duì)照版本。

Trish Regan: Give me your current assessment, where we are on these trade talks? Do you believe a deal is possible?

翠西：你認(rèn)為現(xiàn)狀如何？中美目前談判的處于什么狀態(tài)？你認(rèn)為我們能達(dá)成協(xié)議嗎？

Liu Xin: I don't know. I I don't have any insider information. What I knew was the talks were not very successful last time they were going on in the United States, and now I think both sides are considering what to go next. But I think the Chinese government has made its position very clear that unless the United states government treat the Chinese negotiating team with respect and show the willingness to talk without using outside pressure, there is high possibility that there could be a productive trade deal. Otherwise, I think we might be facing a prolonged period of problems for both sides.

劉欣：我不知道。我并沒有內(nèi)部消息。但我知道上次在美國的談判不太成功，雙方都在考慮接下去該怎么辦，但中國政府立場很明確，除非美國政府尊重中國的談判團(tuán)隊(duì)，顯示談判的誠意，而不是用外部壓力，很可能我們能達(dá)成一個(gè)富有成效的貿(mào)易協(xié)議。否則，我們雙方都會(huì)面對(duì)長期的問題。

Trish Regan: But I would stress that trade wars are never good. They're not good for for anyone, so I want to believe that something can get done. And these are certainly challenging times. I realize there's a lot of rhetoric out there.

翠西：我想強(qiáng)調(diào)，貿(mào)易戰(zhàn)從來都是糟糕的 沒有人能從中獲利，所以我希望能夠做一些事情?，F(xiàn)在是困難時(shí)期，各方都有不少的聲音。

Liu Xin: Indeed there are people talking about china already becoming so big, why don't you just grow up. Basically, I think you said it in your program as well: China, grow up. Well, I think we want to grow up. We don't want to be you know dwarfed, poor, or undeveloped all the time.

劉欣：確實(shí)有人說中國已經(jīng)變得如此強(qiáng)大了，為什么中國不能像一個(gè)成年人一樣長大點(diǎn)呢？你在節(jié)目中也說過，中國(應(yīng)該)長大。我認(rèn)為我們想長大，我們并不想一直做一個(gè)弱小、貧窮、不發(fā)達(dá)的國家。

But it depends on how you define developing country. Right? If you look at China's overall size,the overall size of the Chinese economy. Yes, we are very big, the world's number one. But don't forget，we have 1.4 billion people. That is over three times the population of the United States. So if you divide the second largest overall economy in the world, when it comes down to per capita GDP, I think it’s less than one six that of the United States, and even less than some other more developed countries in Europe. So you tell me, where shall we put ourselves?

但這要取決于你怎么去定義發(fā)展中國家。如果你看中國的經(jīng)濟(jì)總量，那么我們確實(shí)已經(jīng)很強(qiáng)大。但我們有14億人口，超過美國人口的三倍，如果你把它換算成人均GDP，它還不到美國的六分之一，甚至不如歐洲一些比較發(fā)達(dá)的國家。所以你告訴我，我們應(yīng)該把自己放在什么樣的位置?

This is a very complicated issue because per capita, as I said, is very small, but overall it's very big. So we can do a lot of big things and people are looking upon us to do much more around the world. So I think we are doing that.

這是一個(gè)非常復(fù)雜的問題，我們的人均收入少，但GDP總量是非常大的。所以，我們可以做很多大事，全世界期我們能在世界各地做更多的事情。我們也正在這樣做。

We're contributing to the United Nations. We are the world's biggest contributor to the UN peacekeeping missions. And we're we're giving out donations and human humanitarian aids and all of that because we know we have to grow up. And Trish, thank you for that reminder.

我們正在為聯(lián)合國事務(wù)做貢獻(xiàn)。我們是世界上對(duì)聯(lián)合國人類維和任務(wù)貢獻(xiàn)最大的國家。我們捐款，并提供人道主義援助，因?yàn)槲覀冎牢覀儽仨毘砷L。最后也感謝你提醒我們這一點(diǎn)。

Trish Regan: Let's get to the tariffs. I i've seen some of your commentaries too. And Xin, I appreciate that you think China could lower some of its tariffs. I watch you say that, and i'm totally in agreement with you.

翠西：下面我們來談?wù)勱P(guān)稅問題。我看過你的一些評(píng)論，你認(rèn)為中國可以降低一些項(xiàng)目的關(guān)稅。我想說的是，我完全同意你的看法。

In 2016, the average tariff, effective tax that was charged on American goods in China was 9.9 percent, and that was nearly three times what the US was charging. So what do you say about this? What do you think about saying, hey, you know, the heck with these tariffs? Let's get rid of them altogether. Would that work?

2016 年，中國對(duì)美國商品征收的平均關(guān)稅實(shí)際上是9.9%，幾乎是美國征收關(guān)稅的三倍。你對(duì)此有什么看法？如果我們說，忘了關(guān)稅吧，讓我們完全取消它，這樣行嗎？

Liu Xin: I think that will be a wonderful idea. I mean, don't you think for American consumers, products from China would be even cheaper and for consumers in China, products from America would be so much cheaper too. I think that will be a wonderful idea. I think we should work towards that.

劉欣：我覺得這（取消關(guān)稅）會(huì)是個(gè)很好的主意。這樣的話，對(duì)于美國消費(fèi)者來說，中國的產(chǎn)品會(huì)變得更便宜，而對(duì)中國消費(fèi)者來說，美國的產(chǎn)品也會(huì)更便宜。

But you know you talked about rule-based system, rule-based order. This is the thing. If you want to change the rules, it has to be done in mutual consensus. Basically we talk about tariffs, it is not just between China and the United States.

你談到了以規(guī)則為基礎(chǔ)的體系和秩序，這正是關(guān)鍵所在。如果你想改變規(guī)則，那么一定要雙方同意。當(dāng)我們說到關(guān)稅的時(shí)候，這并不是僅僅事關(guān)中美兩國。

I understand if you lower tariff just between China and the United States, the Europeans will come, the Japanese will come the the Venezuelans probably will come and say, “hey, we want the same tariff.” You can't discriminate between countries. So it is a very complicated settlement to reach.

據(jù)我理解，如果你降低中美兩國間的關(guān)稅，那么歐洲、日本甚至委內(nèi)瑞拉都會(huì)來說，“嘿，我們也想要這樣的低關(guān)稅”。不能對(duì)不同的國家區(qū)別對(duì)待。所以說，要達(dá)成這種協(xié)議是非常復(fù)雜的。

Trish Regan: I think your economic system is very interesting, because you know, you have a capitalist system, right? But it's state-run. So talk to us about that. How do you define it?

翠西：你們的經(jīng)濟(jì)體系很有趣，因?yàn)?，你們是“國家資本主義”，跟我們談?wù)勥@個(gè)吧。你如何定義它?

Liu Xin: We would like to define it as socialism with Chinese characteristics where market forces are expected to play dominating or the deciding role in the allocation of resources. Basically, we want it to be a market economy, but there are some Chinese characteristics. For instance, some state-owned enterprises which are playing important but increasingly smaller role may be in the economy.

劉欣：我們把它定義為具有中國特色的社會(huì)主義，在資源分配中市場起到了主導(dǎo)、決定作用。我們希望成為具有中國特色的市場經(jīng)濟(jì)。比如說，國有企業(yè)在經(jīng)濟(jì)中起到了重要作用，但其作用可能正逐漸減小。

And everybody thinks that china's economy is state-owned and everything is state-controlled, everything is state, state, state. But let me tell you, it is not the true picture. If you look at the statistics, for instance, 80% of Chinese employees were employed by private enterprises; 80% of Chinese exports were done by private companies, were produced by private companies. About 65% of technological innovation were achieved or were carried out by private enterprises, some of the largest companies that affect our lives. For instance, some internet companies or some 5G technology companies, they are private companies.

每個(gè)人認(rèn)為中國是國有經(jīng)濟(jì)，方方面面都是國有的，但這不是真實(shí)景象。根據(jù)數(shù)據(jù)，中國80%的員工受雇于民營企業(yè)，中國80%的出口來自于民營企業(yè)的生產(chǎn)，中國大約65%的技術(shù)創(chuàng)新由民營企業(yè)完成。而且這是一些影響我們生活最大的公司，例如一些互聯(lián)網(wǎng)公司或者一些5G技術(shù)公司，它們是私營公司。

So we we are a socialist economy with Chinese characteristics, but it's, you know, not everything state-control, state- run. It's not like that. We are actually quite mixed and varied. We make it dynamic and actually very very open as well.

所以，我們是有中國特色的社會(huì)主義經(jīng)濟(jì)，但并不是所有的事情都是國家控制的，國家運(yùn)行不是這樣的。我們實(shí)際上是相當(dāng)混合和多樣化的。我們讓它充滿活力，實(shí)際上我們國家也非常非常開放。

Trish Regan: What if we said, “Hey!sure! Huawei, come on in. But here's the deal. You must share all those incredible technological advances that you've been working on. You gotta share it with us. Would that be okay?

翠西：如果我們說：“華為，歡迎進(jìn)入我們的市場。但必須與我們分享你們所有驚人的科技進(jìn)步可以嗎？”

Liu Xin: I think it is, if it is through cooperation, if it is through mutual learning, if it is through... if you pay for the use of this IP of this high technology, I think it's absolutely fine. Why not? We all, we all prosper because we learn from each other. I learned english because I had American teachers. I learned english because I had American friends. I still learn how to do journalism because I have American copy-editors or editors. So I think that's fine. As long as it is not illegal. I think everybody should do that. And that's how you get better. Right? 

劉欣：我認(rèn)為，如果是通過合作和互相學(xué)習(xí)，如果你們付了這些高科技的知識(shí)產(chǎn)權(quán)費(fèi)。那可以啊，為何不呢？我們可以互相學(xué)習(xí)，共同發(fā)展。我從美國老師、美國朋友那里學(xué)習(xí)英語；我仍然從美國編輯那里學(xué)習(xí)新聞。只要合法，我認(rèn)為這沒錯(cuò)。我認(rèn)為每個(gè)人都需要這么做，讓自己變得更好。